Comments on: Seth Godin on Great Graphs: A Very Light Purple Cow http://www.excelcharts.com/blog/seth-goin-on-great-graphs-a-very-light-purple-cow/ Business Charts, Done Right Sun, 21 Mar 2010 22:14:50 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Seth Godin on graphs in presentations « OECD Factblog http://www.excelcharts.com/blog/seth-goin-on-great-graphs-a-very-light-purple-cow/comment-page-1/#comment-601 Seth Godin on graphs in presentations « OECD Factblog Fri, 01 Aug 2008 14:14:36 +0000 http://www.excelcharts.com/blog/?p=221#comment-601 [...] Jorge Camoes wrote: No bar charts - a caricature. Jon Peltier: “Pie charts are also abused and overused, and if not forbidden, should be placed on probation.”. Junk Charts: “The advice of No Bar Charts is misguided.. Zach from Juice Analytics: “Pie charts are the most frequently mis-used charts in my experience.” Andreas from More information per pixel wrote that “[...] you would rule out Seth’s pie chart, and use the bar chart in the appropriated business context.”. And Stephen Few himself wrote a post called “Godin’s Silly Rules for Great Graphs”. [...] [...] Jorge Camoes wrote: No bar charts – a caricature. Jon Peltier: “Pie charts are also abused and overused, and if not forbidden, should be placed on probation.”. Junk Charts: “The advice of No Bar Charts is misguided.. Zach from Juice Analytics: “Pie charts are the most frequently mis-used charts in my experience.” Andreas from More information per pixel wrote that “[...] you would rule out Seth’s pie chart, and use the bar chart in the appropriated business context.”. And Stephen Few himself wrote a post called “Godin’s Silly Rules for Great Graphs”. [...]

]]> By: Chart Rules, As Simple as Possible, But Not Any Simpler! | Dashboard Blogs - Examples & Tutorials http://www.excelcharts.com/blog/seth-goin-on-great-graphs-a-very-light-purple-cow/comment-page-1/#comment-600 Chart Rules, As Simple as Possible, But Not Any Simpler! | Dashboard Blogs - Examples & Tutorials Thu, 17 Jul 2008 16:05:02 +0000 http://www.excelcharts.com/blog/?p=221#comment-600 [...] Jorge, Kaiser and Jon already wrote some critical posts about this rule, where Jon suggested to replace rule 2 with Choose Chart Types Intelligently [...] [...] Jorge, Kaiser and Jon already wrote some critical posts about this rule, where Jon suggested to replace rule 2 with Choose Chart Types Intelligently [...]

]]> By: Chart Selection Guide » PTS Blog http://www.excelcharts.com/blog/seth-goin-on-great-graphs-a-very-light-purple-cow/comment-page-1/#comment-599 Chart Selection Guide » PTS Blog Mon, 14 Jul 2008 13:01:02 +0000 http://www.excelcharts.com/blog/?p=221#comment-599 [...] Seth Godin on Great Graphs: A Very Light Purple Cow by Jorge Camoes of Charts [...] [...] Seth Godin on Great Graphs: A Very Light Purple Cow by Jorge Camoes of Charts [...]

]]> By: Chart Rules, As Simple as Possible, But Not Any Simpler! | More Information per Pixel http://www.excelcharts.com/blog/seth-goin-on-great-graphs-a-very-light-purple-cow/comment-page-1/#comment-598 Chart Rules, As Simple as Possible, But Not Any Simpler! | More Information per Pixel Mon, 14 Jul 2008 12:14:06 +0000 http://www.excelcharts.com/blog/?p=221#comment-598 [...] Jorge and Jon already wrote some critical posts about this rule, where Jon suggested to replace rule 2 with Choose Chart Types Intelligently [...] [...] Jorge and Jon already wrote some critical posts about this rule, where Jon suggested to replace rule 2 with Choose Chart Types Intelligently [...]

]]> By: jlmcnamara http://www.excelcharts.com/blog/seth-goin-on-great-graphs-a-very-light-purple-cow/comment-page-1/#comment-597 jlmcnamara Sun, 13 Jul 2008 19:27:00 +0000 http://www.excelcharts.com/blog/?p=221#comment-597 I disagree with the Pie vs. Bar comparison. Pie charts are only better than bar charts when focus is on only one of the pieces which is significantly smaller/larger than the rest. Otherwise, a bar chart is much better to compare multiple pieces because each piece shares a mutual floor and ceiling. Also, the waterfall bar chart allows for multiple comparisons/breakdowns within the same chart without looking chaotic. I disagree with the Pie vs. Bar comparison.

Pie charts are only better than bar charts when focus is on only one of the pieces which is significantly smaller/larger than the rest.

Otherwise, a bar chart is much better to compare multiple pieces because each piece shares a mutual floor and ceiling.

Also, the waterfall bar chart allows for multiple comparisons/breakdowns within the same chart without looking chaotic.

]]> By: admin http://www.excelcharts.com/blog/seth-goin-on-great-graphs-a-very-light-purple-cow/comment-page-1/#comment-596 admin Sun, 13 Jul 2008 17:07:20 +0000 http://www.excelcharts.com/blog/?p=221#comment-596 Seth, thanks for your comment. I know what you mean and I do agree with your principles to some extend, but the specifics are debatable. Let me ask you something: would you talk about Rosling here had he presented a before-boom!-after slide? In your example, you can safely use a pie chart because (1) you know there is no trend; (2) you can differentiate the slices. If there is a strong trend a pie chart is misleading. Data drives chart choice, not the other way around. Let me recommend a more to-the-point post on the use of pie charts in presentations: http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2007/08/how-to-make-a-p.html Enjoy! Seth, thanks for your comment. I know what you mean and I do agree with your principles to some extend, but the specifics are debatable.

Let me ask you something: would you talk about Rosling here had he presented a before-boom!-after slide?

In your example, you can safely use a pie chart because (1) you know there is no trend; (2) you can differentiate the slices. If there is a strong trend a pie chart is misleading. Data drives chart choice, not the other way around.

Let me recommend a more to-the-point post on the use of pie charts in presentations:
http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2007/08/how-to-make-a-p.html

Enjoy!

]]> By: Seth Godin http://www.excelcharts.com/blog/seth-goin-on-great-graphs-a-very-light-purple-cow/comment-page-1/#comment-595 Seth Godin Sun, 13 Jul 2008 14:44:53 +0000 http://www.excelcharts.com/blog/?p=221#comment-595 Thanks for reading and for the thoughtful comments. The problem with Tufte and other chart geniuses (including the great animated stuff that Rosling does) is that the sophistication is so high and the depth of insight so deep that the message gets buried. In Rosling's Ted presentation of poverty and child mortality, for example, the point could have been made just as powerfully in 90 seconds. In some of Tufte's charts, the ones that take a minute or two to 'get' in print, I'm afraid that most people would just flip the page. My point about trolls was simple. If you work in a company that's treating all constituencies the same (and there are a ton of them) and you want to argue for more resources for your biggest share of market, then my pie chart is a lot better than the bar chart. (Substitute "Opera" and "IE 5" for "bilygoats" and you will get my point). Sure, there's always room for superstars who break these rules. But I see a LOT of presentations (I bet you do too) and most of them are arid wastelands of Microsoft encouraged noise and nonsense. If we can fix them (the 80% that are horrible) with a few simple changes, I think that's a fine place to start. Thanks for reading and for the thoughtful comments. The problem with Tufte and other chart geniuses (including the great animated stuff that Rosling does) is that the sophistication is so high and the depth of insight so deep that the message gets buried. In Rosling’s Ted presentation of poverty and child mortality, for example, the point could have been made just as powerfully in 90 seconds. In some of Tufte’s charts, the ones that take a minute or two to ‘get’ in print, I’m afraid that most people would just flip the page.

My point about trolls was simple. If you work in a company that’s treating all constituencies the same (and there are a ton of them) and you want to argue for more resources for your biggest share of market, then my pie chart is a lot better than the bar chart. (Substitute “Opera” and “IE 5″ for “bilygoats” and you will get my point).

Sure, there’s always room for superstars who break these rules. But I see a LOT of presentations (I bet you do too) and most of them are arid wastelands of Microsoft encouraged noise and nonsense. If we can fix them (the 80% that are horrible) with a few simple changes, I think that’s a fine place to start.

]]> By: Jon Peltier http://www.excelcharts.com/blog/seth-goin-on-great-graphs-a-very-light-purple-cow/comment-page-1/#comment-594 Jon Peltier Sun, 13 Jul 2008 14:16:18 +0000 http://www.excelcharts.com/blog/?p=221#comment-594 Jorge - A well thought out analysis. I've just finished my third post about Seth's charting guidelines: <a href="http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/2008/07/13/on-seth-godin-on-charts/" rel="nofollow">On Seth on Charts</a> My post follows up your post above and Kaiser's <a href="http://junkcharts.typepad.com/junk_charts/2008/07/seth-godin-on-charts.html" rel="nofollow">Seth Godin on charts</a> entry in Junk Charts. Jorge -

A well thought out analysis. I’ve just finished my third post about Seth’s charting guidelines:
On Seth on Charts

My post follows up your post above and Kaiser’s Seth Godin on charts entry in Junk Charts.

]]> By: On Seth Godin on Charts » PTS Blog http://www.excelcharts.com/blog/seth-goin-on-great-graphs-a-very-light-purple-cow/comment-page-1/#comment-593 On Seth Godin on Charts » PTS Blog Sun, 13 Jul 2008 14:03:44 +0000 http://www.excelcharts.com/blog/?p=221#comment-593 [...] Seth Godin on Great Graphs: A Very Light Purple Cow by Jorge Camoes of Charts [...] [...] Seth Godin on Great Graphs: A Very Light Purple Cow by Jorge Camoes of Charts [...]

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